hygiene when necessary. And frankly, good old define-macro is hard to beat
for that, no matter how groovy syntax-case appears to everyone.

This is absurd.

It's a matter of emphasis, Taylor. I write better than 90% of my macros in SYNTAX-RULES. I *like* hygiene.

offered by every reasonable programmatic macro system out there, not
merely SYNTAX-CASE,

SYNTAX-CASE and explicit renaming (Larceny & S48, IIRC) are the main ones I'm aware of. Are there other major contenders?

yet long experience has shown that this is almost
always a mistake;

I never said anything different. But for the rare cases where hygiene breaking is desired, I find the semi-hygienic systems to be awfully cryptic.

And since I'm not interested in a religious advocacy war over hygiene, I'd like to know how you think module/namespace-based renaming is an adequate substitute for true hygiene in macros? Because I just don't see it. Module-based renaming and macrotic renaming operate at sufficiently different levels of detail as to seem like rather different operators to me.

david rush